If so many recognize this, why was there no outrage at KISS. almost the same symbol for the ss’s. I’d have to think there would have been some outrage and I don’t recall any. More reaction with how weird they looked than any symbols. Do you think they knew?
There was and KISS records were banned in Germany.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kiss-nazi-logo_us_577430ade4b0bd4b0b13779c
If so many recognize this, why was there no outrage at KISS. almost the same symbol for the ss’s. I’d have to think there would have been some outrage and I don’t recall any. More reaction with how weird they looked than any symbols. Do you think they knew?
There was and KISS records were banned in Germany.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...30ade4b0bd4b0b13779c]
But article says it was meant to be lightning bolts. Two of the band members were Jewish. So perhaps they did not notice. And there was not much notice in the US. But the Germans did and they released different covers in Germany.
The article also says the guy who designed it was anti-Semitic and the other band members called him out on it. My guess was they were too high and making too much money to change it.
I hate to say this, but I’m sure Gene Simmons gives a shit about other jews and their feelings if a dollar is involved.
You have to at least admit the Nazis had a pretty bitchin’ sense of style.
(Not to patf in particular)…should we have issues with the death head/scull and crossbones too?
No. But if you choose the deaths head. Yes.
I asked my Jewish wife if she recognized the symbol. She didn’t. Then again she didn’t know who he ss were. We have been to be holocaust museum on a couple of occasions and I’m sure it was there along with info on the ss. But she didn’t recognize it. So I guess maybe I just have a more vivid memory than most. People have always said I’m an encyclopedia and I always did well memorizing shit for tests and remembering for years.
No it wasn’t directed at you.
The point I’m making is not so much the initial picture or even using the flag, but that a sizable number of lowlifes seem to defend the use of it. I was asking you if you agree with some of the post I saw based on your reasonable explanation. Do you think it people should “just get over it”?
Haven’t read the rest of the comments yet (I am after posting this response), but I by no means defend any continued use of that rendition and don’t think people should “get over it”. I think its reasonable to assume that these Marines did not have racist thoughts in their heads while making this. I could be wrong, but I just never saw that type of organizational hatred in my time as a Jarhead. Once people pointed it out, the use of it was immediately stopped.
I’m a little dumbfounded that anyone could look at that picture and not instantly think Nazi SS. Then again, I am a bit of WWII buff.
As it pertains to the usage of this image, it is absolutely no different than the swastika, which is an ancient symbol that was co-oped by the Nazis. It was an important symbol in Buddhism (among other religions) until WWII. It’s unfortunate, but it is now forever a symbol of hatred.
I’m in 100% agreement with you on this. How anyone doesn’t make the immediate connection with the Nazi SS is beyond me. I saw the picture before I read the post and my reaction was “What the fuck? Are those U.S. military members posing with an SS flag?”
At the very least it’s ignorant and tone deaf. There’s no way a group of guys IN THE MILITARY didn’t know the jagged lightning bolts configuration of the SS letters was the way the Nazis used it. No way. I don’t think it had anything to do with the Marines being racists, there’s just no evidence of that. They wanted a cool SS logo to denote Scout Sniper and stupidly chose the Nazi SS logo. I’m not the most delicate flower, or is it snowflake now, but people certainly need to be sensitive to the meaning behind the SS logo, especially members of the US Armed Forces who had previously fought against everything symbols like that meant back in the 1940’s.
I asked my Jewish wife if she recognized the symbol. She didn’t. Then again she didn’t know who he ss were. We have been to be holocaust museum on a couple of occasions and I’m sure it was there along with info on the ss. But she didn’t recognize it. So I guess maybe I just have a more vivid memory than most. People have always said I’m an encyclopedia and I always did well memorizing shit for tests and remembering for years.
I don’t think so. The German SS is hardly some esoteric organization lost to history. I assumed that virtually any adult would at least have a working knowledge that the SS was a thing and associate them with Nazi Germany in the same manner I would expect someone to be aware that Gettysburg was a Civil War battle.
I too am a bit of a WWII buff, particularly the European theater, the Marine Corps educated pretty damn good on the Pacific theater. I first saw the use of the ‘SS’’ back in 1995, living in the barracks in Okinawa, the guy living in the room next to me was a Scout-Sniper. I went for a run with him one day and noticed a huge ‘SS’ brand on his calf and immediately ask him what the fuck! He said everyone in his Scout-Sniper platoon had one, they did it to each other with a bent coat hanger heated with a propane torch. I asked him why the Nazi style ‘SS’, he simply responded, “because it’s easier to bend the coat hanger that way”. I told him he was screwed, he’ll be viewed as a Nazi the rest of his life by anyone who sees the brand, he just said, “fuck 'em I don’t care”. Pretty much a typical attitude of a mid-20’s male who thinks he’s 10’ tall and bulletproof, and unable to project his own self image 10-years into the future. I chalked it up to the attitude many young Marines have when getting their first tattoo, no forethought at all.
I got to know him pretty well over the next 6 months he was there (UDP deployment). He seemed like a stand up guy, hell of a Marine and knew his shit inside/out. Never once did he do or say anything remotely Nazi-ish, so I honestly believe he and his platoon didn’t do it with any malice in their hearts/minds, just dipshits.
I asked my Jewish wife if she recognized the symbol. She didn’t. Then again she didn’t know who he ss were. We have been to be holocaust museum on a couple of occasions and I’m sure it was there along with info on the ss. But she didn’t recognize it. So I guess maybe I just have a more vivid memory than most. People have always said I’m an encyclopedia and I always did well memorizing shit for tests and remembering for years.
I don’t think so. The German SS is hardly some esoteric organization lost to history. I assumed that virtually any adult would at least have a working knowledge that the SS was a thing and associate them with Nazi Germany in the same manner I would expect someone to be aware that Gettysburg was a Civil War battle.
So did I but I guess not based on his thread.
I’m a little dumbfounded that anyone could look at that picture and not instantly think Nazi SS. Then again, I am a bit of WWII buff.
As it pertains to the usage of this image, it is absolutely no different than the swastika, which is an ancient symbol that was co-oped by the Nazis. It was an important symbol in Buddhism (among other religions) until WWII. It’s unfortunate, but it is now forever a symbol of hatred.
I’m in 100% agreement with you on this. How anyone doesn’t make the immediate connection with the Nazi SS is beyond me. I saw the picture before I read the post and my reaction was “What the fuck? Are those U.S. military members posing with an SS flag?”
At the very least it’s ignorant and tone deaf. There’s no way a group of guys IN THE MILITARY didn’t know the jagged lightning bolts configuration of the SS letters was the way the Nazis used it. No way. I don’t think it had anything to do with the Marines being racists, there’s just no evidence of that. They wanted a cool SS logo to denote Scout Sniper and stupidly chose the Nazi SS logo. I’m not the most delicate flower, or is it snowflake now, but people certainly need to be sensitive to the meaning behind the SS logo, especially members of the US Armed Forces who had previously fought against everything symbols like that meant back in the 1940’s.
Thank you.
I knew what this symbol was by 12.
An increasingly common situation, but I agree with you. It might even have been earlier than that. Not a WWII buff but read enough history books and saw enough war movies to recognise the letters/font.
57 yo never seen or at least made notice of that symbol. I bet very few would know that symbol. Unlike a swastika which most people probably recognize. ** I watch history channel, watch war movies. Never noticed it.**
That’s amazing. I feel like it’s regularly shown in movies and on the history channel. I guess if you didn’t know what it was in the first place. I’ve been a WWII nerd since I was little and have always known what it was.
I’d be curious to see how often you pick it out in History channel shows and or movies now that you know what it is.
I just asked my 21 year old daughter if she knew what the symbol was. I showed her the first picture in the thread. She didn’t recognize it. I told her was from WWII and showed her the photos on page 2. She said “Oh, no. They shouldn’t be using that”.
So, while she is put off by its use now that she knows what it is, she didn’t recognize it. I’ll ask my son about it when he gets home from school. He is a history buff, and will probably recognize it.
This scares me a little bit. I know the numbers constantly change, but, there are only about 800K US WWII vets left and we are loosing them at a rate of 490 per day. I know WWII was a long time ago, but, to me, it isn’t ancient history. It was always something my grandparents to tell me about and my father could repeat stories his father told him. Is WWII becoming akin to the Civil War? Are we becoming numb to what happened and what happens when we lose all the vets? Frightening.
Interestingly I was going to post a picture of Hans Landa (the villain in Inglorious Bastards) as an SS Officer, I was sure he would have it. No, maybe that is the problem. Modern films don’t have proper props. They did have the death’s head though.
This scares me a little bit. I know the numbers constantly change, but, there are only about 800K US WWII vets left and we are loosing them at a rate of 490 per day. I know WWII was a long time ago, but, to me, it isn’t ancient history. It was always something my grandparents to tell me about and my father could repeat stories his father told him. Is WWII becoming akin to the Civil War? Are we becoming numb to what happened and what happens when we lose all the vets? Frightening.
I don’t think that people are becoming numb to what happened, they just aren’t recognizing the symbols. Note my daughter’s reaction when i showed her the photos. She also said “People need to be taught what the swastika and that symbol mean so they don’t use it.”.